00:00:07:03 - 00:00:31:00
Speaker 1
Welcome back to the weekly round up with the PSN coaches. That's Mike, That's Jenn. I'm Dylan. We are here with our show that we do every single week to talk about what's going on in the real estate industry, targeting agents as our true audience because we coach about 70 agents and our different coaching groups and every, every week they're dealing with what's going on in the industry.
00:00:31:00 - 00:00:56:01
Speaker 1
They're dealing with slow markets, busy markets, multiple offers, no offers, no showings, new legislation. And that's what we're going to talk about today. You're talking about trust, which is the trust in Real Estate Services Act. It is replacing our old legislation and it's got a few changes, but a lot of it is staying the same. So I think with everything new that comes out, people get a little concerned about what they don't know.
00:00:56:01 - 00:01:19:17
Speaker 1
And I think the biggest thing that I would say is what I'm seeing is a lot of different scenarios being talked about. And so I think where people are getting in the weeds is truly the unknown is we don't know how some of these new rules are going to play out in the real world. I think if you talk to a lot of agents to explain the differences that have been made, for the most part, it's business as usual.
00:01:19:17 - 00:01:41:17
Speaker 1
There's a couple more disclosures and stuff like that. But for the agents that are out there performing at a high level, we were doing a lot of that, disclosing and talking with our clients anyway. So I don't think that that's all that different. I think the biggest thing probably comes with open bidding and now more clearly defined self-represented individuals and what that looks like.
00:01:41:17 - 00:02:02:17
Speaker 1
So before we get into the weeds on that, Jen, in your position with working with the brokerage, what are you guys seen on your end and how is that? How has that been? Because I know that, you know, at the top level, everybody looks to their broker or their broker of record with asking these questions. And yeah, what what kind of stuff are you guys hearing and how's it looking on your end.
00:02:02:19 - 00:02:24:14
Speaker 2
I'm yeah, I mean everybody is generally leaning into the the broker of record in the office of broker record here and then our team as well and the main, the main thing right now is a lack of clarity and that's a little bit you know, coming from the top down. The roll out was kind of right at the point where we were switching.
00:02:24:16 - 00:02:57:01
Speaker 2
So with forms and with proper procedures and with know even choices the brokerage had to make with the new legislation in how we were going to govern the representation piece of it. There's a lot of gray area there. And as a as a leadership team, you know, we're getting clear on what what kind of everyone else is also doing to get an understanding of how the rest of the industry is looking at it, talking to our peers, talking to other brokerages, getting feedback from how they're proceeding so that we can kind of make the best educated decision.
00:02:57:03 - 00:03:21:01
Speaker 2
But, you know, we're lucky we have a great broker of record. So he's very clear and has been kind of spending time learning and getting educated on exactly what it means. So he's giving us great guidance. The agent challenge is that they just haven't seen it in practice yet. And because they haven't seen it in practice, because it just rolled out December one, they're still concerned, though.
00:03:21:02 - 00:03:40:20
Speaker 2
And you said it best. It's the unknown. Right? The what if scenarios. And we're hearing a lot of questions where people are really going into the weeds on the what ifs instead of just focusing on. He hears that the main change is I need to know about and here's how I'm going to go implement it into my business, which is perfectly normal because change is scary.
00:03:40:22 - 00:04:00:18
Speaker 2
Change is hard and most people don't like change and our brain is wired, is literally hard wired to think of worst case scenarios when we don't know answers because it's trying to protect us from everything that could happen between this and that situation. That's how we're built, right? It's a survival instinct. So in any given instance that happens, no matter what.
00:04:00:18 - 00:04:21:06
Speaker 2
So that's what's happening right now, because we have a lack of understanding or lack of execution. Everybody's in that unknown space. And so there's a lot of spirals happening and a lot of rabbit holes happening. And there's a lot of concern over things that, as far as we can tell from a top down view, like they're not they're not that big of a change.
00:04:21:07 - 00:04:42:22
Speaker 2
Right. And and I think there's a lot of noise in our industry about this change. There's quite a few things changing at once which is not helping or compounding that discomfort that all of our agents are in. So the timing is not ideal. So we're dealing more with the discomfort of our agents than with a lack of understanding of what's actually happening, if that makes sense.
00:04:43:01 - 00:05:14:16
Speaker 1
Yeah, that makes total sense. And to go back to how you started that, you know, the lack of clarity from the top, from what I'm understanding and from what I know personally, that what you're saying there is from the governing bodies that are actually controlling this legislator and rolling it out, and then are organizations that actually get the forms to the realtors, because you would think with new legislation and new documents that need to be signed and disclosed and provide to clients that as agents and an industry, we would have had that for months before it actually came into effect.
00:05:14:17 - 00:05:34:12
Speaker 1
But in reality, what's happening is changes were being made up until the very last day that this thing was that launched and are still being made. So a lot of a lot of agents don't even have the forms in their hand as of yet. Certain platforms have them other platforms that we use do not have them. So I think that part is probably added to a little bit of the stress.
00:05:34:12 - 00:06:04:10
Speaker 1
It's like, okay, these rules are in effect as of now. And by the way, we'll be sending them to you later this afternoon. But that's that's kind of how that roll out is felt. And I think it's that messaging or that that delivery that has made it so much more stressful for everybody. Because, Mike, I know you and I, when we both log into our web forms, like the the place where we used to actually create our documents and get them ready for our clients to sign and draft offers and agreements and all that stuff.
00:06:04:12 - 00:06:19:13
Speaker 1
Our templates that you and I both use had converted automatically. There wasn't actually really any stress there, Right. So how was your experience been with that and do you think that it is more about, I guess, the whirlwind that's going around this than the actual practicality of what's changing?
00:06:19:15 - 00:06:45:09
Speaker 3
Yeah, Yeah, I kind of agree with Jen. Everybody doesn't like change. So the one thing that this is very difficult for a lot of people is that it's changing the idea of all the changes and the way that they advertise it is, you know, there's 90 different, 90 forms that are either brand new or have been edited, but combined there's 90 new and edited forms and right away, when you say that to somebody, it's like, Oh my gosh, that's so many things I'm going to have to learn.
00:06:45:11 - 00:07:03:11
Speaker 3
But when you actually break it down, and I know for myself on Friday when this all launched, I took Friday to just update all of my forms to make sure I was completely up to date with everything and I didn't have to do it took me 10 minutes because I went in and they already updated it for me, which was awesome.
00:07:03:13 - 00:07:24:02
Speaker 3
But not only that, but of the 90 forms that they had changed every single form, it it's like minor changes. It's like maybe the verbiage or the way that they wrote it has to change. So it was very, very little in comparison to what they kind of advertised it to be. But overall, I would say my experience with it so far has been pretty decent.
00:07:24:04 - 00:07:47:05
Speaker 3
And the reason why I say that is because the changes that have come into effect are going to open up our industry for more information for the consumer. Right? What now? We have a consumer guide that everyone has to acknowledge prior to even doing a deal on real estate, and that provides the consumer themselves with more information, which is better for them because it's going to help protect them.
00:07:47:05 - 00:08:04:17
Speaker 3
Right. And it's us as the realtors that need to decide what the best approach is for that client. But by providing them with the information, they can also have a decision on that as well. Because a lot of the times and I don't know if this is with you guys, a lot of the times, a lot of people just trust the realtor and they just say, Hey, just send me the forms and I'll sign it.
00:08:04:17 - 00:08:21:02
Speaker 3
And I don't know what the heck I'm signing. I don't know what's going on. Nothing. And they just sign blindly, right? So this whole trust idea is to not only protect the real estate agent a little bit further, but also to educate the consumer a lot more and I think that's going to change our industry in a good way.
00:08:21:08 - 00:08:42:05
Speaker 3
And I really do think it will impact a good way. And a lot of people have negative things to say about it. But again, that's because change is always perceived as being something that's bad. Right? But we're changing because of the fact that there has been so many things to have gone wrong that we need to make it more clear for consumers and more clear for realtors that this isn't a job that you could just do for fun.
00:08:42:05 - 00:08:57:21
Speaker 3
Right. Like, best example I could have is one of the most frustrating things for me and my clients is when an agent books are showing and they don't show up. Right? And it just happened to me on Sunday, and I had a phone call at that agent and I said to him, How did your showing go on Saturday?
00:08:58:00 - 00:09:16:13
Speaker 3
Said the property. And he goes, Oh yeah, I know. We didn't we didn't show up. Like just no nonchalant. Like, no, we didn't, we didn't do that. And I was like, Why didn't you show up? Oh, we were too busy. Okay, so why didn't you cancel the showing? You know, we forgot like that as itself. In a profession.
00:09:16:16 - 00:09:40:07
Speaker 3
You imagine saying that your doctor saying that you're an appointment with your doctor and then you get there and the doctor's like, Oh, yeah, sorry, I forgot about you. Yeah, you have an appointment. It's so unprofessional. And there's serious severe fines that come with that. And this new Trezise is opening up the field to make it more easier for consumers to complain about realtors, but also realtors to complain and say, Guys, this is a professional industry.
00:09:40:07 - 00:09:57:17
Speaker 3
We need to keep it professional as much as possible, right? We don't want those people that aren't taking it seriously involved and we want to make sure that it's taken seriously because you're helping people sell their biggest assets. Right. So it does need some more. It does need some help in terms of the professional side.
00:09:57:19 - 00:10:22:21
Speaker 1
You know what I want to talk about just real quick as a little aside, as as I listen to you, especially when talking about clients that just trust their agents and will just sign blindly without waiting for the explanation or asking questions. You know, we aren't the only industry that needs help in this field with more disclosure, more explanation, more education for the consumer, more education for the client.
00:10:22:22 - 00:10:38:21
Speaker 1
Right? I was in the hospital for a quick procedure just last week and the nurse puts a big form in front of me. It says here, sign at the bottom. Doesn't explain any of it. I don't get a copy of it to look at it later and so we're talking about our biggest purchase, but we're also talking about our health like our life.
00:10:38:21 - 00:11:01:06
Speaker 1
You only get one of them. And again, I I'm there. There's a lineup of people behind me. It's sign this and let's move this thing along. And by the way, you don't get a copy to read this later. Like it's just there for their files. Right. So, you know, looking at various industries, I think what's going to happen now is as much as you want to give realtors a hard time in the industry, a hard time, we totally deserve the hard time.
00:11:01:06 - 00:11:15:02
Speaker 1
I get it. But in actuality, when you look at how much we're required to disclose and how much paperwork we're giving out and everybody gets copies and you have to keep track of that for X amount of years, like that's actually ahead of most industries. I would say they get.
00:11:15:04 - 00:11:15:15
Speaker 3
Yeah.
00:11:15:17 - 00:11:33:01
Speaker 1
And again, if you look at the health care industry where it's your life that's on the line and that's the same kind of method that's going on, like that's way worse than what's going on in real estate right. And we know that all horror stories that happened in the medical field, too. So I think that at the end of the day, it's important to acknowledge that what the real estate industry doing is a good thing.
00:11:33:01 - 00:11:37:04
Speaker 1
We are being proactive about taking steps and going forward, if that makes sense.
00:11:37:04 - 00:11:54:14
Speaker 3
You know, 100%, I totally agree with that. And it's another insight. And again, we get a lot of heat out in the in the real world, right? A lot of people hate us. Right. And it's funny that they hate us because we are honestly being we're an open book. We're trying to give out as much information as possible, trying to help people as much as possible.
00:11:54:16 - 00:12:11:22
Speaker 3
And I would say out of all the industries with in comparison to the mortgage industry, insurance industry, the health care industry, I don't think any industry is as ahead of the curve in terms of sharing information with clients and making sure they're fully aware of what they're signing. Right, Which is incredible because it's allowing us to be more professional.
00:12:12:04 - 00:12:34:11
Speaker 3
Right? And it's allowing the consumer to see exactly what it is that we're doing to help them out, because there is and again, maybe this is because of the fact that in the past there has been so many bad things that have happened in the industry, maybe not like in the recent years, but ten, 20 years ago, there's been a lot of stuff that has happened and that caused all this stuff to come out right.
00:12:34:11 - 00:12:53:09
Speaker 3
And again, with trust being unveiled, it was more like, okay, guys, our last rulebook was done in 2002. You know, some things have changed and we need to change with that. Right? And we need to continue to grow as an industry. And so, yes, is it a pain in the ass to do all the new forms? For sure it will be.
00:12:53:09 - 00:13:16:06
Speaker 3
It will be for the next month. But you know what? Suck it up. This is the way the industry's going and this is what we have to do to do it right. There's nothing you can do and embrace it. Embrace the change, be happy about it. Because to me, I love the idea that I can. Now I have a full guide of walking my clients through the whole process because prior to that I did already have my own guide, but it was my guide that I had to make.
00:13:16:06 - 00:13:31:05
Speaker 3
Now, the real estate board has said no. Here's a pre-made guide that you can just show them, right? So it actually took work off my load because now I can just go with their template and say, These are all the things that they want me to cover with you. This is what's most important, right? Takes a little bit of pressure off of me, which is great.
00:13:31:06 - 00:13:52:05
Speaker 1
Yeah, I love that. And actually on that, just to share more industry knowledge, I was in a forum today where they're talking about that new guide in how, you know, Rico, who is our governing body for the ethics of our of our industry built that guide and they built a website that makes it easy for you to send that guide to clients, which makes a lot of sense.
00:13:52:05 - 00:14:11:08
Speaker 1
Like, that's fantastic, right? That that's proactive and, you know, good on them for doing that. And then listening to some of the experts. You know, a lawyer came on and said because somebody was asking a question about that, because you don't receive a copy of the signed document, you just get an email alert saying that they they had they had opened it and that they accepted it.
00:14:11:08 - 00:14:36:07
Speaker 1
And like acknowledged it, but you don't receive a copy of it. So the lawyer pointed out that if you ever get sued, you want to make sure that you have a copy of that. That little email alert is not going to be enough to protect you. It's not right. So again, it's like there's there's the practicality of how this is going to get implemented and then there's how the governing bodies and the government and the legislature and all those guys figure it out and like it seems like a great thing.
00:14:36:07 - 00:14:50:19
Speaker 1
But then you look at and you're like, Great. I don't know who acknowledged that. I don't have a signature on that. I don't have a copy, I don't have any of that stuff. I've just got an alert from a third party website that says that they clicked. Yes. And that they opened it. Right. So it's it's the beginning step.
00:14:50:19 - 00:15:07:22
Speaker 1
So now we've learned that if you really want to make sure that you're covered, put that in a sign and signing platform, send it off and keep it for your records just like you would the things that they're going to sign, because they're going to still sign working with a realtor, they're still going to sign agency agreements, whether it be buyer or seller, depending on who you're working with.
00:15:07:22 - 00:15:14:20
Speaker 1
So I think it's one of those things like we are going to learn best practices as we continue to to move along.
00:15:14:22 - 00:15:31:11
Speaker 3
Yeah. I also want to kind of throw in there too, is with this whole self-represented party that people can now represent themselves, which is great for people that want to do that. But I think that's actually going to open up the industry to show why a realtor is so valuable to the transaction and why it's so important to have it.
00:15:31:11 - 00:15:48:21
Speaker 3
Because prior to that we had buyer customer service where, you know, in my instance when I provide a buyer customer service, the buyer people, the clients, they thought I was their realtor and I had to like, like, guys, I am not your real estate agent. I am solely just writing on paper what you wanted me to write. Like, I am not giving you advice.
00:15:48:21 - 00:16:06:11
Speaker 3
I'm not guiding you. I have a fiduciary duty to my seller. So the whole Self-represented party thing is a great example as to why this industry is so important and why you do why you should have representation in the event of your you're buying a home. Why would you not want a professional to review the process with you?
00:16:06:14 - 00:16:26:11
Speaker 3
Sit down, guide you, and maybe show you something that you don't know? I know for myself every year when I do my taxes, Yeah, I could probably do my own taxes. Should I probably not write because it's not my everyday job. So I don't know the common things that an accountant would know and they're going to save me in the long run just by doing it as a professional, right?
00:16:26:12 - 00:16:36:14
Speaker 3
Just like with any other industry, it is mortgage industry, insurance industry. Yeah. I could drive my car without insurance. Technically, I don't know. I guess you can. I guess the legal, but yeah.
00:16:36:16 - 00:16:37:00
Speaker 1
Really?
00:16:37:02 - 00:16:56:16
Speaker 3
Never mind that example. But like that is that you could do that you probably shouldn't do. And there's reasons why we have the ability to work with professionals because that is the job. And again, it comes down to if you are a consumer, you know, make sure you're finding the right professional for you, because not everybody is the same.
00:16:56:16 - 00:17:23:14
Speaker 3
And as a real estate agent, make sure you are that right, professional, right? So make sure that your systems are in place. Make sure that you're doing everything you can, because this is a job. It's a profession, right? It's something that you have to take seriously. And so make sure that when someone is trying to buy or sell their biggest asset, you're up to date with everything that's involved because that is super important and it's going to make you stand out from a lot of the professionals in our industry that, you know, give us a bad rap, right?
00:17:23:16 - 00:17:24:03
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:17:24:05 - 00:17:59:21
Speaker 2
And that's part of the whole reason this is happening. Right? There's been a lot of history of agents doing things, whether intentional or unintentional, just a lack of knowledge. It's hard to know sometimes where the consumer is, the one who has the worst result that comes out of it because we sell such. And I think that's why we're so regulated, because what we deal with is usually such a huge financial piece, whether in people's lives or their investments or whatever that might be, that it is an impact that could change the entire trajectory of someone's life.
00:17:59:21 - 00:18:24:12
Speaker 2
If you handle it poorly or take advantage of them or whatever. We all hear those horror stories and the whole point of was to create a more fair environment within our industry so that there was complete clarity and fairness for buyers and complete clarity and fairness for sellers. The question that's going to rationalize is, is that possible with the concepts and stuff we have coming out?
00:18:24:12 - 00:18:47:06
Speaker 2
It's it's put in place to create that greater disclosure is in, you know, a non represented party versus even a consumer being something different than a non business or a non represented person. Right? So even that has to get washed out a little bit to figure out. Okay, even as agents, as an open house, we get asked this question a lot right now.
00:18:47:08 - 00:18:58:07
Speaker 2
If someone comes into my open house and they're not represented, how do are they a non represented party or how do we approach that? They're a consumer at that moment. They're not a non represented party.
00:18:58:07 - 00:19:06:14
Speaker 1
And just to jump in there, just to say self-represented as opposed to non represented, because I think that's an interesting distinction there as well. Yes.
00:19:06:16 - 00:19:31:08
Speaker 2
Yes. Self-represented. But at the same time, like a consumer is somebody that is interested in talking to you maybe as in represented by anybody, but is considering getting representation. A self-represented person is somebody who says, no, I don't want to hire you as a realtor. So now that the general public have that choice, that they can make, most people are still going to choose to hire a realtor.
00:19:31:10 - 00:19:53:16
Speaker 2
But it's just that space of going, okay, well, even as realtors, what does this mean for us? Is there realistically, can you make the industry fair for everybody in a buyer's market? It's probably more fair for the buyers in a seller's market. It leans more to the sellers in a balance market. Maybe. Maybe that's when you you get a bit more of a win win scenario going up.
00:19:53:16 - 00:20:16:22
Speaker 2
But realistically that that's what the legislation like, that's what its big vision was to create that equality across the board and to be determined how that's going to play out. But I think case by case, if scenario based, some pieces are going to hold up and some people some pieces are not, and a lot of this is contract law, a lot of the changes are contract changes.
00:20:16:22 - 00:20:33:17
Speaker 2
But when that's truly going to be tested is when it does end up in a court, what happens? And when that occurs, then we're going to finally kind of have clarity, I think, on the act, what going to stick and what maybe is not going to stick out of this plan. Right.
00:20:33:17 - 00:21:03:20
Speaker 3
And 100%. And there's constant changes happening with that. Right. It's one of those things that this is the start of something new because, again, the last one was in 2002. Right. And we've been using it and editing that every single year since 2002. This is the first time we finally said, no, we're going to revamp everything. Right? And so every single year as we go forward, there will be enhancements that will make it easier for the consumer and better for the consumer and better for realtors as well to, again, protect the real estate agent and to protect the consumer as well.
00:21:03:20 - 00:21:15:07
Speaker 3
Because at the end of the day, that's why we have these rules and regulations and the code of ethics and all this stuff is to make sure that as an industry we're more professional and the consumers have more information and are also protected as much as possible. Right.
00:21:15:07 - 00:21:33:22
Speaker 1
And I don't think what's what's totally clear yet. But one of the changes that they have made in regards to how agents are looking at, okay, I need to get clear on what is a represented individual and who is self-represented. Right. I need to make sure that I'm showing the guide, that I'm explaining the different agency options and which way we're going to go down.
00:21:34:01 - 00:21:59:01
Speaker 1
And of course, we're being very clear that we are not supposed to supply any of our services, knowledge or insight with a self-represented party because we don't want to blur those lines. We don't want them saying down the road, I was confused because so-and-so gave me this advice, right? So we're not allowed to do that anymore. And as Jen brought up the talk about what our agents are allowed to then say in an open house, well, now we're getting very clearly like these are consumers that are coming at that point.
00:21:59:01 - 00:22:13:16
Speaker 1
They haven't raised their hand to say I'm a self-represented individual yet or that I would like to work with you, yet I'm simply a consumer seeking to get some more information. Now, if they tell you that they want to represent themselves, that's different than you shut it down. Or if they've another agent, same as always, you then shut it down.
00:22:13:18 - 00:22:35:08
Speaker 1
But it's getting a little bit more clarity on some of those services that we used to look at. Like I provide my database, pass clients information about what's going on in their neighborhood. I'm giving them market reports on what their home might be worth and stuff like that. Well, now we're getting a little bit more clear that until that the real discussion has been had, a lot of that stuff is actually marketing, right?
00:22:35:08 - 00:22:52:19
Speaker 1
You're working with a potential consumer. It hasn't been decided one way or the other. That's just information. Now, when I explain working with a realtor, I'm going to make this as quick as possible. But I think it's important that we start outlining this because this is some of the new additions that you're going to have to discuss when you sit down with clients.
00:22:52:21 - 00:23:09:07
Speaker 1
So the way I've always explained it to people is like it's a team sport and I always use football, but you can say it's any team sport, there's a buyer team and a seller team. Each of those teams are allowed to hire their own coach. A buyer coach and a seller coach. Now, as your coach, I'm here to help you win the game.
00:23:09:07 - 00:23:29:18
Speaker 1
I'm invested. Your best interests are what I'm looking out for. I will never yell to the other team, Hey, we're going to throw long or this is our strategy. Everything that we come up with together is for us to win the game. And they have their own coach that's going to do that for them as well. Then I say in multiple representations, say I bring a buyer to one of my own listings, then I become the referee.
00:23:29:20 - 00:23:52:02
Speaker 1
I take a step back. I'm not allowed to coach or give any insight or recommendations. I just make sure the game is being played fairly and everybody has accurate information and that's it. But now with the SRP, essentially, I think I'm going to have to reframe that. And part of that discussion is say when you're choosing not to work with me or another agent, and it depends how you have that conversation.
00:23:52:02 - 00:24:11:10
Speaker 1
If you're going for a buy side or a sell side. But I would probably just explain it as simply as like you were choosing to be your own coach. You are the only coach and the player in the game and you are deciding to play the game against me and my client, my team. So I want to be very clear that I am not helping you in any way.
00:24:11:10 - 00:24:26:06
Speaker 1
We are playing the same game together, but I am not offering you my guidance insight. I can I can tell you maybe where the locker room is, but I can't tell you how to get there. I can't tell you where the training equipment is. I can't tell you which plays you should be practicing or what you should be running.
00:24:26:06 - 00:24:46:22
Speaker 1
I can't provide you any of that stuff that is just for me and my team or the other agent and their team. Not for yourself. You have to bring all of that forward. So my guide to your point before is I think it's going to it's going to do a better job of educating the public that want to self represent themselves, that they are missing a lot of other information.
00:24:47:01 - 00:25:05:16
Speaker 1
And then a lot of people will say, well, I get the home prices online and I you know, I'm a member of Sigma or what any other platform that provides sold prices for you to get that data. Well now it's clear that that data is just marketing. Yes, you absolutely have that information. You have marketing information. Right. Nobody is giving you any guidance on that.
00:25:05:16 - 00:25:23:13
Speaker 1
And that's okay. Like those sale prices are accurate. But remember, that is essentially now looked at as a marketing platform, not necessarily Their job as Sigma's job is to get you to sign up with them as their agents, as their brokerage. That's why coach as their coach. Yeah, they want you to hire them as their coach. That's why.
00:25:23:15 - 00:25:38:16
Speaker 1
Find out more about how Sigma or work with the how Sigma agent is one of the top buttons anytime you look at those listings and the prices. So again, it's marketing, right? So do you want to be do you want to hire a coach or do you want to be the coach and the player and go through this game without that experience?
00:25:38:18 - 00:25:55:00
Speaker 1
And there would be some people would be like, Yeah, I used to be a coach. I can do this on my own or whatever it might be, and that's totally okay. But I think it's just the explanation to be like, Oh yeah, maybe I don't have all that stuff. Maybe I don't know where the training facilities are, maybe I don't know the plays, maybe I don't know the rules of the game, right?
00:25:55:02 - 00:25:56:06
Speaker 1
So I think that when.
00:25:56:08 - 00:26:15:19
Speaker 3
I reference, I think that's I'm actually going to steal that. I think that is the perfect way to reference working with a real estate agent versus not working with a real estate agent. Because when you just tell me if you just said to me, Mike, we're going to pick any game, any game that both of us don't know how to play, but you're going to play without a coach and I'm going to play with a coach.
00:26:15:19 - 00:26:29:18
Speaker 3
I'm already going to say to you, you've won the game because I don't know how to play it. You don't know how to play it, but now you have guidance on how to play it, so you're going to have the upper hand on me 100% of the time, right? And I love that idea. I think that's a really great way to describe it.
00:26:29:18 - 00:26:47:10
Speaker 3
And I think consumers as a whole, when they hear it from that perspective, will understand that, okay, yes, if I used to be a coach or I've I've had lots of training as a coach in the past or something like that, I might still be able to do it on my own, which is great. But I still have to go against another team and their coach, right?
00:26:47:10 - 00:26:55:20
Speaker 3
So it's still a daunting task to go against somebody else when they have a team and a coach as well. Right? So I love that reference. I think that's really good.
00:26:55:20 - 00:27:14:13
Speaker 1
And I think the confusing part and what they've what they've changed with getting rid of that customer service agreement is I don't think that that was ever I think that experience agents can help navigate that with their clients a little bit easier and their non clients. There are people that are just like, no, I just want you to write the offer and let me explain what that means.
00:27:14:13 - 00:27:31:16
Speaker 1
Just writing the offer. Now we've, we've removed that whole step and it's much more clear on what I'm able to do in terms of just write me the offer. I think even that element has changed. Like they're they're really pulling us back and being like, No, if that person's self-represented, you cannot consult with them at all on that offer.
00:27:31:16 - 00:27:51:01
Speaker 1
Like it's here's the form, fill in the blanks or take it to your lawyer. Fill in the blanks. I can provide services only in the step that are servicing my client. So if that means you come fill in the blanks as best as possible as you can, we take it back to my client Now, the coach is going to look at that playbook and say like, Nope, we're not doing that.
00:27:51:01 - 00:28:06:22
Speaker 1
We're not doing that. We're not doing that. They missed this. Let's fix this and then bring it back. That's how I can facilitate that transaction. But again, I'm doing it for my client, not for you. I may be giving you paper, but it's for what's best for my client. I think that part is probably becoming a little bit more clear.
00:28:07:01 - 00:28:24:19
Speaker 1
Hopefully it's going to be much more clear than what it was in the past. And based on the agent's responses so far in the fear of how do I work with ESPs and how do we disclose this and what can I say, what can I not say? I think that more agents are waking up to the necessity for clarity in that aspect.
00:28:24:21 - 00:28:26:22
Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
00:28:27:01 - 00:28:51:20
Speaker 2
And I think key piece of this whole controversy is to remember that we didn't really work with that many as our piece to begin with. Like how many non-representative self-represented parties would we actually do deals with in, in the history of being in real estate because yeah there's not yeah, I've done two in like 17 years, right? So it's not to say that people won't make that choice.
00:28:51:20 - 00:29:15:15
Speaker 2
They will and they can and they'll be more educated about what it means and it creates clarity, which is education, which allows people to make better decisions. Right? And I think that that's the best part that's come out of all of this. I believe most people are not going to choose that path. I don't think we're actually going to have to deal with that space as often as it's coming up in the discussions we're having right now, because a lot of people are focusing on it.
00:29:15:15 - 00:29:23:05
Speaker 2
And it's it's it's less of a topic than probably dealing with the open bidding and the closed bidding and how to step.
00:29:23:06 - 00:29:24:16
Speaker 1
Forward.
00:29:24:18 - 00:29:45:16
Speaker 2
In some of those changes that are getting rolled out. And that clause that people can put in, that a buyer can choose not to participate in the open bidding and that the seller has to choose whether or not they want it to be open or not prior to the bidding commencing that is going to happen more in a heated market in our area than a self-represented party, in my opinion and I.
00:29:45:21 - 00:30:15:21
Speaker 2
But the clarity that the consumer is going to get about what their choices is when it comes to representation has become exponentially more clear with an SRP option versus a customer service option. So I think it is in the best interests of both us as agents and for the consumer themselves to to understand what those lanes are, because it was a bit blurred before, right when we had customer service, it was a little challenging to stay in the lane on that for the most good.
00:30:15:21 - 00:30:43:09
Speaker 2
It but it was it was hard. People did ask for advice and did ask for guidance. And, you know, it's hard to tell people I can't provide that for you, which we did, but it doesn't feel great. Whereas now it's like, well, you're either this or you're that. So it's much more the fine box, I guess. But yeah, it's funny that we this conversations and even in the office and with the agents as there is such a big piece of our conversations and probably a small piece of our actual business.
00:30:43:09 - 00:30:47:03
Speaker 2
Right. So yeah, I find that interesting. Yes.
00:30:47:05 - 00:31:10:22
Speaker 1
Yeah. And I think that, I think that what you're segway into is an important part because I think it is the open bidding process so far that is probably the most unclear in terms of how it's going. I, I bet you like I would say that you can probably cut through a lot of the BS and understand like that the seller has the option to share any information from any of the offers if they so choose.
00:31:11:01 - 00:31:31:02
Speaker 1
There's a lot of gray area right now, people trying to understand, well, if you as a buyer want to participate in open in a offer on a property where a seller wants open bidding but you don't want open bidding, can you still have a viable offer? And that part's a little murkier right now. But I would say even that just understand it's the seller's game.
00:31:31:02 - 00:31:50:11
Speaker 1
You actually don't have a choice. You either play by their rules or you don't play right now. That's essentially, I think, where we're ending on that. And it will depend a lot on how this works out in a practical sense, like in the real world, how are agents communicating with their sellers? What are the sellers asking for? How are they notifying the agents that are involved?
00:31:50:11 - 00:31:55:11
Speaker 1
What kind of conversations are buyer agents having with their clients and how are we going forward with that?
00:31:55:11 - 00:32:17:03
Speaker 2
So unless there's collective industry, all the buyers get together and just all agree like nobody's know, everybody put in a clause about not participate in bidding, because if that happens, it makes it it makes it kind of cool for the seller to even select it because nobody's going to participate in it, which potentially could be something that becomes a standard clause in all of our offers.
00:32:17:04 - 00:32:19:06
Speaker 1
And I think that that's a great point that you say, Great, you've.
00:32:19:06 - 00:32:20:14
Speaker 3
Already added that to ours.
00:32:20:16 - 00:32:27:09
Speaker 1
Yeah, but that was that the clause does not protect you from your offer being excellent. It can still be.
00:32:27:11 - 00:32:44:16
Speaker 3
A funny thing because somebody had said this, you know, actually doing it was with you and we were kind of talking about it with John there. He had mentioned that I can put any clause into my agreement. I could put a clause in there that says the seller is going to give me $1,000,000, but until that seller physically signs it, that clause is not active right?
00:32:44:18 - 00:33:00:07
Speaker 3
And so by having a clause and again, we put it standard in our contracts, now it's the second second clause in our agreements. And now it states that you cannot disclose the information. However, that doesn't mean anything until they actually sign it now. So that's where it becomes a little bit confusing.
00:33:00:12 - 00:33:23:12
Speaker 1
It's sending a good signal. I don't think that the clause is bad to have in there. I think that it's I think that it's good, like it's letting the seller know your intention and saying, hey, I don't want to play that way, doesn't mean the seller has to play that way. And Mike, in our in our conversation that we had with John there, we talked about, well, if you send over an NDA beforehand, a nondisclosure agreement and you get the seller to sign that, then you're protected, that's for sure is now agreed they're not going to do that.
00:33:23:14 - 00:33:43:16
Speaker 1
So as as you agree to that, though, it's great to come up with solutions. But at the end of the day, this is a seller's priority that the legislation says that the seller gets to decide this. So as fire agents, we can come up with the best practices that we can to give ourselves a leg up. But ultimately, for the time being, it's still up to the seller to decide if they're going to play that way.
00:33:43:18 - 00:34:01:00
Speaker 3
And I think this is where it gets a little bit weird. And maybe this might be a time for another call. But as part of my clause, I have written in there that if our offer is revealed and the seller does determined or does want to work with us by reviewing our offer to anybody, our offer is now null and void.
00:34:01:02 - 00:34:18:13
Speaker 3
So I don't know how you prove that they've shown that to anybody. I don't know what that process looks like, but by the material fact of them telling somebody about our clause or telling them about our offer, if they then then accept our offer. Technically, our offer is null and void from what I would understand. But then again, I don't know how that.
00:34:18:15 - 00:34:38:14
Speaker 1
There's one point that you're missing there that has to happen is you have to scratch out the signed under seal sections on the signature page for that to be happen because technically that's signed under seal. That offer is not revocable just because you said it's revocable somewhere else. It is not revocable. Right. So you have to take that part out and then that clause becomes active.
00:34:38:14 - 00:34:41:02
Speaker 1
You still have to try and prove it. I don't know how you go about that.
00:34:41:02 - 00:34:46:11
Speaker 3
I don't know how you'd prove it. That's my biggest thing, is I don't know how you'd even prove that to begin with. But it's interesting.
00:34:46:13 - 00:35:12:02
Speaker 1
The thought that they have behind it is if this is being done fairly, listing agent is sending every agent that has their offer one email that goes to everybody. But now could a listing agent that doesn't have high morals or whatever you want to call it, decide, you know what, I'm going to email John and Dylan about Mike's offer, but I'm not going to email Mike on that email.
00:35:12:05 - 00:35:38:18
Speaker 1
He's not going to get I'm not doing a mass blast to five agents. Same offer. One is this offer. Two is that offer three? Is that because if they did that, you would be like, Hey, 560. That's my offer. I know that that's all right with me. I'm out of here. But if they sent that email to the other four, you know, I think that that's the downside of this open bidding, is it does create murkier waters for the unscrupulous ones, too, to run amok.
00:35:38:18 - 00:35:55:13
Speaker 1
Right. And that's a lot of why this legislation always comes in, is because we play to the lowest common denominator a lot of the time. We play to the unethical ones, we play to the uneducated ones, be like, how do we make this idiot proof? How do we make this evil? Right? Because the good people that are operating the high level, this is an impact on us at all.
00:35:55:13 - 00:36:01:10
Speaker 1
We're still doing everything the way we always did to an extent, right? We're just now educating and explaining a little differently.
00:36:01:12 - 00:36:28:12
Speaker 2
So here's a question I have about this whole scenario, though, and I've been thinking about this a lot because with blind bidding, which is what we've traditionally had, where nothing is is shared about any of the other offers that you receive, there's more control on the seller side. Like I know what the offer says in my seller knows what the offer says, but I can create more uncertainty and bigger moves if the buyers don't know what's in the offer.
00:36:28:14 - 00:36:54:00
Speaker 2
So as a seller's agent, am I going to advise or discuss with my client when I discuss with my client open bidding versus close bidding in my mind, I can't come up with a scenario where open bidding is a better service for my seller to get the best money for his property or their property, because if it's open like that, let's say that email does go out.
00:36:54:00 - 00:37:06:00
Speaker 2
Everyone knows number one is at 580, right? Yeah. I don't know what they're buying at 580, but they're at 580, so what? Why would anybody go to 650 if they know they're all going to go buy me.
00:37:06:01 - 00:37:06:18
Speaker 3
Five.
00:37:06:20 - 00:37:43:22
Speaker 2
Or six. So one or six or two to try and squeak in above the rest. And these rounds can go on for an indeterminate amount of time. There's no like, okay, it's three rounds and we're out. And best offer after three wins, that's that's not a part of the conversation, is it? Not in the best interest of my seller to say let's like here's what happens in both scenarios but if it's blind that person that could go up to 650 is more likely to go to 650 when they don't know what's in those other offers because they're going to speculate and go back to that worst case scenario conversation we had earlier.
00:37:44:01 - 00:38:01:00
Speaker 2
They're going to assume that the other offers are at six, ten, six, 20. They're going to be in that window. So I see it as, why would you advise your sellers or why would a seller choose an open bidding scenario when they can have blind bidding? I might be wrong on that.
00:38:01:00 - 00:38:07:02
Speaker 3
I just I actually have a circumstance that I could have loved to have had the open bidding. And the reason why is because we really.
00:38:07:03 - 00:38:23:07
Speaker 1
Quick court before you give your answer, just kind of summarize that for everybody that's listening is what is getting at is a bigger point is are we even going to see this come into play in the industry? Like is anybody going to do open bidding or the majority of them are still going to be closed bidding because that's the way that we got here.
00:38:23:07 - 00:38:40:14
Speaker 1
It's been a seller's market for ten years, you know, with a couple little dips in the middle. But with with that market, we're now the legislation is trying to find ways to make it easier for buyers so that you don't have that one that blows it. It blows everybody out of the water, but they're still making a choice for the sellers.
00:38:40:14 - 00:38:47:04
Speaker 1
So will the seller simply choose not to participate in open bidding? Now, Mike's going to give a reason why a seller would participate in open book.
00:38:47:04 - 00:39:05:03
Speaker 3
Yeah, so actually I have to, funny enough. So the first one was an actual personal experience that I went through in the summer. We had a listing that was for sale that we were holding offers on and we got five offers that night or that day. Give my my client was 98 years old, so very much she was not signing on an iPad or a computer.
00:39:05:03 - 00:39:22:11
Speaker 3
She was signing physically. So I had to be there in person with her. So what I did prior to that is I pre-negotiated all the deals. So I had all the deals come in all five. I sent them all back for a second round and then the top three sent back for a third round. So I've now gone three rounds.
00:39:22:13 - 00:39:48:17
Speaker 3
During that process we ended up doing five rounds because the top two agents, not only had the same closing date, but they also had the same exact price to the dollar, to the dollar. And in that circumstance, I would have loved to have said, okay, we're switching to an open bid system. Here are the top two offers. This is what you guys have, because at this point I have done five back and forth.
00:39:48:19 - 00:40:07:14
Speaker 3
Both agents had said, we're not moving forward anymore. This is the maximum we have. And now I'm stuck with two of the exact same offers. The reason why it won the the one person, one other than the fact of me flipping a coin is because they had one clause in their agreement that said the seller can leave all of their items in the home.
00:40:07:14 - 00:40:24:21
Speaker 3
Any garbage that they don't want, they can leave it in the house. And the kids of this 98 year old woman said, So you mean after today I can shut the door, lock it and never come back? And I said, Yep. And they said, That's the winner. And I had to make a phone call to the other agent and tell her she lost because of that.
00:40:25:00 - 00:40:40:13
Speaker 3
And she was passed. She lost it on me like, like unbelievable yelling at me. And I said to her, I don't know what to tell you. You told me that was the most you could have done. And she said, Well, why didn't you tell me you were the same? I said, I couldn't tell you that you were the same.
00:40:40:18 - 00:41:06:12
Speaker 3
I'm not allowed to write, so there's nothing more I can do, right? And in that circumstance, having that open bid system like where you started off blind and then opened up to an open bid system at the end would have helped me and probably my client get a little bit more money. And the only other circumstance that I would see it being valuable is if as a buyer, if I have a buyer client and we like a property and there's one offer, sometimes buyers say, you know what, I'm not going to compete.
00:41:06:12 - 00:41:23:14
Speaker 3
I don't want to compete. I'm not in that game to compete. Well, if I call the agent and say it's an open style bidding, because if you only have one offer and you tell me what the bid is, I might be able to actually bring you a second offer. Because now if I go back to my client, say, Well, you're competing, but the offer is at 600,000, their offer is only 575.
00:41:23:14 - 00:41:40:06
Speaker 3
So they're actually below asking. So you don't have to go above asking. You just have to go a little bit above theirs. It might actually entice someone to go in to actually want to buy a home if they knew what the other offer was that they were against. That's really the only circumstances that I see it being valuable to both buyers and sellers.
00:41:40:08 - 00:41:49:05
Speaker 3
But other than that, I agree with Jen. I think as a seller my main advice is going to be, especially in a hot seller's market, to keep it blind, unfortunately for the buyer.
00:41:49:05 - 00:42:08:22
Speaker 1
So I think what's going to happen I like this is a I think they made this rule thinking that they're helping buyers, but because it's solely the seller's decision, it's another tool in the seller's tool belt. They are only going to use it when it benefits them. They are knocking the benefits any buyer. So I think the system is flawed from the get go and we'll see how it plays out.
00:42:09:02 - 00:42:26:03
Speaker 1
You know, I'm totally open to it. I think there will be people that that like it and people that don't. And I think our our team and our culture and our culture is definitely one of growth and being leading professionals in our field. So if these are the rules, we're going to play by it. We're going to learn how to service our clients better with it.
00:42:26:05 - 00:42:46:06
Speaker 1
We're not going to fear it. At the same point, I can look at it and say, I think this is a flawed device. If your goal was to help buyers or help remove overpriced selling of houses in the market, because that's what's been happening and they look at it, well, you know, offer a outbid offer be by 75,000.
00:42:46:06 - 00:43:06:08
Speaker 1
Yeah. There's a chance they could remove that if you made it open bidding was mandatory on all because the seller can still do that with this new legislation. That's not going to happen. They're not going to expose that when they've got such an upper hand. Right. So I think that that element is still not necessarily going to change without active blind bidding has on the market.
00:43:06:10 - 00:43:14:18
Speaker 3
And on how, especially in a hot seller's market, have a seller's market. I don't think anybody would do an open bid. I just think it would be against like it would just be stupid to do that.
00:43:14:20 - 00:43:25:15
Speaker 1
There would be an opportunity for the seller to change it to an open bid later in the night just to benefit the one thing that they want to get that top dollar with a good closing date type thing. Yeah.
00:43:25:17 - 00:43:47:03
Speaker 2
I do have a question on that though. My and I could be wrong in this, but my understanding was they had to disclose prior to offers being reviewed if they were doing open or not. So I was under the impression and again could be wrong, that you can't change halfway through. You have to decide prior to the negotiation and starting.
00:43:47:03 - 00:43:51:14
Speaker 1
Is that my understanding that you can change it at any point?
00:43:51:15 - 00:44:04:22
Speaker 3
You can change it, at least from what I've heard as well. That rule might have changed in the in the coming weeks coming up to it, because again, everything changes so quickly. But from my understanding as well, you could change it at that point. You could go blind, open, blind again.
00:44:05:01 - 00:44:20:17
Speaker 1
I think the and all that was required from that, like from the the course that we sat down and took when the area expert came to, to brief us all on this, she said like that's the seller's prerogative. They can change it at any point. They can reveal what they want from the offer. They can pick and choose.
00:44:20:19 - 00:44:42:15
Speaker 1
All they have to do is notify everybody in writing that that's what's going on. So it's a simple email out, This is what we're doing now. Here's the results and again, which is why I don't think that this process I think that's why this process is going to have a lot of confusion, lot of people being upset because rules are being dictated by one side of the party solely for their benefit.
00:44:42:17 - 00:44:58:19
Speaker 2
It's going to get messy with that because it's it's making it more one sided than than prior, because now they have control over distribution of information as well. Right. Which is not something it was either blind or you. That was that before. Right.
00:44:58:21 - 00:45:24:18
Speaker 1
And here's why. Here's why. I think that our industry is not is is almost like worse off because we have part time realtors in it. I think that any profession is it's hard to say that the bar is really high when you have part time people in it. Right. Because it's just the reality of the situation. But the reason why I truly believe that to an extent with this open bidding process is full time.
00:45:24:18 - 00:45:40:07
Speaker 1
Realtors, that this is their profession, their business and their reputation. They won't play games on off for a night like that. That's going to affect them down the road for their next client that they're trying to serve their client after that they're trying to serve. Whereas somebody is like, I do one deal a year, two deals a year.
00:45:40:08 - 00:45:59:07
Speaker 1
I'm just trying to squeeze every last dollar out of this thing to make sure that it works. They're going to be a little more willy nilly with those guidelines and those rules. And and I think that sometimes professionals on on any field will look at guidelines and rules and be like, I understand the intent of this. I don't need to game this one.
00:45:59:07 - 00:46:16:06
Speaker 1
I can say like I'm playing within the rules and that's all well and great, but I'm also playing within the spirit of these rules that I'm doing this so that I'm not treating somebody poorly or that I am making it more fair. And I think that when you're not invested in something, if you can find gray area to play and you're going to do that, right.
00:46:16:06 - 00:46:29:02
Speaker 1
I'm not saying that pros won't play in gray area to serve their clients. I think they will. But I think that they're going to do it with the look in mind of like, this is my business, this is my reputation. And I understand the spirit of these rooms. And yeah, like, here's an industry.
00:46:29:04 - 00:46:54:11
Speaker 2
And there's also the fact that part timers aren't necessarily going to know any better. You're doing one deal a year to see how good are you to be in executing the different types of scenarios like we see it now rated prior to even Tressa like you can tell in a seasoned professional agent versus somebody who's doing this part time, we usually know from the first phone call we have with them just based on dialog and the conversations.
00:46:54:16 - 00:47:06:10
Speaker 2
So it's going to play well in that scenario as well. So I guess to be to we determine how this is all going to go and I think we're going to be in for a lot of changes over the next 12 months for sure.
00:47:06:12 - 00:47:07:04
Speaker 3
Yeah.
00:47:07:06 - 00:47:27:03
Speaker 1
It makes sense that the trust the topic would take us to 50 minutes, unlike our usual run time. So I think that it's it's a good time for us to wrap up because we could talk. TRESSA Industry changes all day long, but if you're if you're looking to find us, you can find us on YouTube, Google Podcasts, we are percent coaching.
00:47:27:03 - 00:47:41:14
Speaker 1
The show is the weekly roundup. That's Mike Russo, That's Jennifer Silver. And I go, I'm doing Silber. And I go, You can find us with P.S. Coaching and Keller Williams Realty Centers in Newmarket. Aurora. Thank you so much for joining us. And we will see you next week. Bye for now.
00:47:41:16 - 00:47:42:03
Speaker 3
Bye.
